Physio Round Table: Carnivore Crap

Mar 29, 2024

Hi all! We have a nice follow up video from our blog post titled Carnivore Crap in our first ever Physio Round Table with Dr. E. If you have not checked out Dr E's Modern Manual Therapy and the Modern Mastery Program -- you should today. For now, enjoy this awesome YouTube discussion about the Carnivore Diet and perspectives for PTs. And if you don't want to watch the video, read the summary below!

Text Estimated Summary:

# free youtube transcript
# The Physio Round Table Podcast - The Carnivore Diet - Full of Crap?

00:00:00.280 we're here with the first inaugural
00:00:02.240 episode of The Eclectic approach's
00:00:04.240 physio Round table and with me I have Dr
00:00:06.480 Sean Wells so how's it going today Sean?
00:00:10.519 I'm doing great things are going great
00:00:12.120 today how about you oh things are going
00:00:14.519 well the reason why I have Sean on is
00:00:17.039 because he was pretty much trolled by a
00:00:20.080 couple of PTs specifically you called
00:00:21.920 him out as being like New York PTs and
00:00:23.760 I'm like oh what what what's wrong with
00:00:25.720 New
00:00:26.400 York yeah well there's a lot of things
00:00:29.279 wrong with New York say but I mean a
00:00:31.519 couple PTs called him out um because of
00:00:35.320 his site you know he's the official
00:00:37.280 modern nutritional rehab and his brand
00:00:39.320 is also nutritional Physical Therapy um
00:00:42.960 and on his sites you want you want to
00:00:45.680 give a quick recap what happened and
00:00:47.120 then uh your response we'll talk about
00:00:48.879 that yeah absolutely so yeah i' received
00:00:51.800 uh an email from somebody who was on my
00:00:53.760 newsletter and apparently they' been opening
00:00:56.079 and reading some of my my blog posts and
00:00:58.079 things which is awesome uh they have
00:01:00.079 purchased the course but still really
00:01:02.320 love having people on there and reading
00:01:04.040 my material and content and uh well lo
00:01:07.320 and behold I get an email from him
00:01:08.920 saying that I'm completely missing the
00:01:10.360 mark and that carnivore is the only way
00:01:13.759 and so what he's referring to there is
00:01:15.320 the carnivore diet and around that same
00:01:17.479 time I also have a chat function set up
00:01:20.720 for my uh my website and my courses so
00:01:24.360 that when people have questions like hey
00:01:25.720 Sean you know how many because is this for
00:01:28.200 hey what's you know how do I access my
00:01:29.880 website or whatever uh usually that's
00:01:32.320 the kind of short quick questions I get
00:01:34.079 well this time around I got some
00:01:35.920 messages that you know were basically
00:01:37.880 like your information is basically
00:01:40.920 expletive junk and carnivore is the
00:01:44.159 only way so around that same time I'm
00:01:46.320 getting flack uh I'm getting this
00:01:48.280 email so I'm going putting two two and
00:01:50.479 two together that you know I've been
00:01:51.719 kind of targeted by some carnivore
00:01:53.320 groups and that's okay because it's not
00:01:55.040 my first time because uh in the past
00:01:57.200 I've been critical of CrossFit like many
00:01:59.439 many many years ago uh were yeah
00:02:03.360 especially when they were doing a lot of
00:02:04.560 the uncontrolled box stuff and there
00:02:06.240 wasn't a lot of Regulation and things I
00:02:08.160 know things have changed now but uh
00:02:10.239 especially with so many physios and PTs
00:02:12.640 and and boxes now but uh even when I
00:02:15.360 criticize back then about how they
00:02:17.160 needed to improve their process I was
00:02:18.720 targeted and my practice was targeted as
00:02:20.680 well even with bad reviews and people
00:02:22.319 that I've never even seen so it's not my
00:02:24.599 first rodeo with being criticized but
00:02:26.640 it's certainly eye opening because in
00:02:29.239 this case the carnivore diet is uh
00:02:32.599 definitely an extreme fad diet it's not
00:02:35.400 something that is uh really safe or uh
00:02:38.840 really warranted in many
00:02:40.879 populations so what would you say um to
00:02:44.800 people who say like oh I've tried the
00:02:47.000 carnivore diet right this is all like
00:02:48.879 anecdotal right I've tried the carnivore
00:02:50.840 diet and I've never had more energy and
00:02:53.280 I have this Clarity and all these
00:02:55.720 benefits you supposedly get from them
00:02:57.200 what would you say to that so you
00:03:00.319 usually I respond that's great that
00:03:01.480 worked for you and obviously every
00:03:03.280 person's physiology is different um
00:03:06.000 however we often see with any dietary
00:03:08.799 manipulation we often see improvements
00:03:11.360 in a lot of those qualitative functions
00:03:13.319 of like brain fog feeling of tiredness
00:03:15.920 or fatigue and we don't necessarily
00:03:18.680 understand why but we do have inferences
00:03:21.120 that a couple things one we know that
00:03:23.080 when actually people start paying
00:03:24.640 attention to their diet and they're more
00:03:25.959 aware of what they're eating they
00:03:27.200 actually can lose weight and their
00:03:28.599 quality of diet improves so that's one
00:03:30.599 factor second factor is we know that
00:03:32.560 when we shift particularly macros in
00:03:35.120 that extreme so going from no
00:03:36.640 carbohydrates to or excuse me
00:03:38.920 carbohydrates and no carbohydrates um
00:03:41.280 you're obviously utilizing different
00:03:42.480 fuel systems right so you're shifting to
00:03:45.120 uh you know carbohydrates to using more
00:03:47.480 gluconeogenesis to produce ketones so
00:03:49.959 you you get some shift in that regard uh
00:03:52.439 thirdly you get a shift in the my gut
00:03:53.959 microbiome so with that your gut
00:03:56.400 bacteria changes so the talk between
00:03:58.360 your your gut and your brain changes so
00:04:01.319 those short-term factors happen with
00:04:03.560 almost any short-term diet change now
00:04:06.599 the question is what happens over the
00:04:08.159 long term and that's really where I
00:04:10.680 think the issue is it's not necessarily
00:04:12.640 that 30-day window of time or that you
00:04:15.360 know two week period of time that you
00:04:17.238 went carnivore it's really how do you
00:04:19.600 feel after two years right not only how
00:04:23.199 do you feel after two years but I mean I
00:04:26.120 would also say similar to like manual
00:04:28.160 therapy or even treatment you know is is
00:04:29.840 there a placebo effect of I'm I'm doing
00:04:32.960 this I heard it was good for me and I
00:04:34.560 feel great um obviously there's a lot of
00:04:37.720 other factors but I I can't discount
00:04:39.560 that factor too um for there being like
00:04:42.240 just
00:04:43.479 non-specific effects not even actual
00:04:46.000 effects but um I always like to tell
00:04:48.840 people that you know any kind of
00:04:50.840 structured diet without knowing what
00:04:53.520 your diet was like before you could only
00:04:55.240 assume typically that it's a typical
00:04:57.000 Western diet meaning that it's not
00:04:59.400 health there's processed foods um High
00:05:02.199 sugars high carbs things like that and
00:05:04.120 then you go to you know when I look at
00:05:06.160 studies back when I was very heavily
00:05:08.759 plant-based like 90 90% or something
00:05:11.320 because I'm I'm not as much plant-based
00:05:13.080 anymore um but back when I was heavily
00:05:15.720 getting in studying plant-based diets
00:05:17.960 and looking at studies like plant-based
00:05:19.960 diet versus vegetarian diet versus a
00:05:22.479 whole uh Whole 30 diet or I forget what
00:05:25.440 it's called versus just a Mediterranean
00:05:27.479 diet every single group
00:05:30.360 improves equally across like all kinds
00:05:33.440 of biomarkers and blood work and
00:05:35.240 everything because again it's typically
00:05:37.880 just a structured diet that eliminates
00:05:41.080 most of the bad things you shouldn't be
00:05:42.680 eating yeah I mean Kevin Hall has been
00:05:45.120 looking at this for several years
00:05:46.479 looking at basically trying to get from
00:05:49.800 a processed diet or ultr processed diet
00:05:52.240 which is kind of standard American to a
00:05:54.560 process to you know basically a Whole
00:05:56.039 Foods type diet and then you know a lot
00:05:58.160 of his Studies have looked at um
00:06:00.319 particularly okay is it going to be low
00:06:02.039 carb high carb or just a balanced and
00:06:04.840 like overall what really was the big
00:06:07.280 kind of qualifying Factor was how
00:06:09.240 processed the foods were and um I know
00:06:12.319 his I'm summarizing like probably 10
00:06:14.479 years of his research into like two
00:06:15.840 sentences there's been several trials and
00:06:17.599 studies that he's done that to culminate
00:06:19.240 that evidence but he's been probably our
00:06:21.120 Premier person so uh in a way sort of
00:06:23.919 put a nail in the coffin of like well
00:06:25.400 it's got to be low carb it's got to be
00:06:27.039 high carb or no it's got to be mostly
00:06:29.199 minim processed foods that uh that you
00:06:31.639 need to be consuming and so that's
00:06:33.639 that's part of why with carnivore
00:06:34.919 there's an appeal because it you know
00:06:36.400 someone might say hey it's it's meat
00:06:38.160 right you know it's minimally processed
00:06:40.840 uh some meat is right just like saying a
00:06:43.360 carb is a carb is a carb and not
00:06:45.319 necessarily you know we know that
00:06:46.759 there's a difference between eating
00:06:48.160 table sugar and eating a mango the mango
00:06:51.080 has nutrients fiber and water whereas
00:06:53.639 the sugar has pretty much just devoid of
00:06:55.720 any nutrients so uh not all meat is
00:06:58.280 created equal either and solely eating
00:07:01.879 meat has a lot of pitfalls and as I
00:07:03.840 mentioned in the My article that I wrote
00:07:06.440 in response to these physical therapists
00:07:09.199 uh it's devoid of fiber that dietary
00:07:11.919 pattern it's devoid of certain nutrients
00:07:14.680 and it can lead to constipation as as
00:07:17.680 well as other issues I think a lot of
00:07:19.759 people go on this diet because there's
00:07:21.960 concerns around grains particularly and
00:07:25.080 uh concerned around
00:07:26.479 carbohydrates and um when you really
00:07:28.879 look at it it's this is not a new diet I
00:07:30.960 know Sean Baker would love to sort of
00:07:33.039 he's the orthopedic surgeon who created
00:07:34.560 the carnivore book and created the carnivore
00:07:36.560 diet he'd love to stake the claim stake
00:07:38.800 the claim literally that he created
00:07:42.080 this diet but really originated from a
00:07:44.280 German scientist in the 1800s who did
00:07:46.520 basically a meat and water only diet and
00:07:49.639 several other derivations of that diet
00:07:51.879 in I think in Italy as well they used to
00:07:54.159 use it for diarrheal disease to try to
00:07:56.599 get somebody basically constipated from
00:07:59.840 probably pooping too much from typhoid
00:08:02.159 or cholera or something like that so
00:08:04.240 obviously it works in terms of making
00:08:05.759 you more constipated because you're able
00:08:07.680 to give people lots of meat lots of
00:08:09.120 water and then keep them from having a
00:08:11.120 lot of diarrhea uh so this is not the
00:08:13.800 very first time we've seen this diet and
00:08:15.599 just like we've seen in so many fat
00:08:17.800 diets like Atkins and the grapefruit
00:08:19.879 diet the rice diet it's usually you know
00:08:22.919 extreme limitation of one or some some
00:08:25.560 other substances uh with some health
00:08:28.000 claim and usually some book or media
00:08:30.240 production or in this case it's kind of
00:08:32.080 a brand he's built now uh with Tik Tok
00:08:35.399 videos merch you know that whole kit and
00:08:38.479 kaboodle that we see within um uh kind of
00:08:41.479 current contemporary social media uh
00:08:44.000 apparatuses so it's it's not something
00:08:47.279 new but also people feel like it's
00:08:49.480 something new it's something different
00:08:50.720 and so they get excited about it it's
00:08:52.160 it's understandable people got excited
00:08:53.720 about Atkins came and went and uh now
00:08:56.880 we've had VAR variations of that right
00:08:58.720 Zone Diet,
00:08:59.959 South Beach Diet, but I think
00:09:02.640 ultimately like you said if you can find
00:09:04.360 a dietary pattern that works for you
00:09:05.959 that's sustainable that is minimally
00:09:08.279 processed and uh can meet multiple
00:09:10.920 nutrient uh nutrient needs then that's
00:09:13.600 probably the ideal diet for you uh the
00:09:16.040 carnivore diet unfortunately doesn't
00:09:17.800 tick those boxes and over the long term
00:09:20.320 even even devout followers of this diet
00:09:22.959 have said you know after several years
00:09:24.640 it's bland it's difficult it's not easy
00:09:27.000 to sustain and ultimately that's not a
00:09:29.600 that you want to be on right the
00:09:31.959 sustainability I think would be
00:09:34.720 difficult even if it was let's just say
00:09:36.480 even if it somehow encapsulated your
00:09:39.079 fiber needs um and and other just
00:09:43.600 vitamin nutritional needs is it
00:09:46.519 sustainable right I mean you have to the
00:09:49.880 diet the diet that is best for you if it
00:09:52.360 is Bland and you can't adhere to it it's
00:09:55.279 useless just like the exercise right
00:09:56.800 like when they say about what is the
00:09:58.320 most exercise what is the most effective
00:09:59.920 exercise program it's the one that you
00:10:01.200 enjoy it's the one that you're going to
00:10:02.560 be motivated enough to do because if you
00:10:05.480 don't if you're not motivated enough to
00:10:07.399 to stick with these things and actually
00:10:09.279 like create a lasting behavioral change
00:10:12.200 it doesn't matter how good it is for you
00:10:13.760 because you have you have to stick to it
00:10:15.880 absolutely and that's that's probably in
00:10:19.240 terms of my argument that's probably the
00:10:21.000 strongest argument obviously with all
00:10:23.120 the other nutrient and scientific facts
00:10:25.000 that are there like you know not having
00:10:26.519 vitamin C not having magnesium not
00:10:28.760 having fiber
00:10:30.160 uh which plenty of dietitians and
00:10:32.320 Healthcare Providers have pointed out
00:10:34.160 like I cited uh the uh gentleman um
00:10:37.800 Jonathan Jerry's article from 2018 that
00:10:40.320 he published on McGill University's
00:10:42.320 website the carnivore diet a beefy leap
00:10:44.440 of faith if if you haven't had a chance
00:10:46.240 to take a look at that but he dived into
00:10:48.240 some of the myths around the carnivore
00:10:49.920 diet like you know how vegetables are
00:10:52.120 poisonous to us because of phytic acid
00:10:54.160 and other compounds that sort of bind
00:10:56.000 and block certain nutrients there's
00:10:57.639 really not a lot of evidence it's very
00:10:58.959 theoretical and um you know if that
00:11:02.040 was the case I would say then why is
00:11:03.839 there evidence that like the
00:11:04.880 Mediterranean diet which has you know
00:11:06.839 thousands of published articles showing
00:11:08.440 its Effectiveness how's that worked over
00:11:10.360 years because there's both carbs there
00:11:12.560 and meat you know most of that meat is
00:11:14.639 mostly oily fish occasionally some Dairy
00:11:17.240 and egg so that being said like you know
00:11:20.240 there's just not a lot of arguments and
00:11:21.480 I know they oftentimes will sort of
00:11:23.480 pigeon hole us into certain populations
00:11:25.880 like the Inuit well or or the African
00:11:28.399 tribes but those those individuals are
00:11:30.880 so far outside of our modern society
00:11:34.440 they don't have the same exposure to
00:11:36.560 ultra processed foods they don't have
00:11:38.120 the same exposure to the marketing that
00:11:41.279 we are so I think those are extreme sort
00:11:45.120 of yeah they same thing with their bi
00:11:46.839 their their gut biome is is probably
00:11:49.720 largely different from ours um and even
00:11:52.000 someone on my Facebook page they they
00:11:53.480 did reference those two tribes um saying
00:11:56.040 how uh particularly the Maasai tribe they
00:11:58.920 only eat meat and honey but I'm like
00:12:01.800 well meat and honey is not only
00:12:05.480 meat because because like the local um I
00:12:09.680 mean I'm not aware of any studies on
00:12:11.000 this but I know that um I've heard
00:12:13.160 things like this where uh just bees take
00:12:16.680 on like the the local kind of flora and
00:12:18.800 fauna and and so it's possible that any
00:12:20.760 nutritional needs they may have for
00:12:23.519 vegetables or or fiber or fruit or
00:12:26.120 anything could potentially be in the
00:12:28.160 honey but again gut biome probably large
00:12:30.720 wildly different than our typical kind
00:12:32.440 of Western gut biome uh you know it's
00:12:36.040 even even individual people they do
00:12:39.519 stuff like they take they take like the
00:12:41.959 the particular gut floor of an obese IND
00:12:44.560 of obese individual and they transfer it
00:12:46.399 into like a skinny individual or vice
00:12:48.639 versa and and they start to lose weight
00:12:50.440 or gain weight right so a very kind of
00:12:54.880 thing the Maasai tribe they actually
00:12:57.399 they do eat honey which is a
00:12:58.600 carbohydrate right but they also they
00:13:00.399 are known for eating tubers now do they
00:13:02.839 cultivate their crops so they go out and
00:13:04.680 like grow fields of corn no so their
00:13:07.480 diet is not sustained on that like large
00:13:09.480 agricultural grain model kind of like a
00:13:11.800 lot of our our Western cultures are but
00:13:15.040 they still eat tubers which typically
00:13:16.920 are roots that are starchy and fiberous
00:13:19.000 so uh again I think we're kind of
00:13:21.360 cherry-picking some of that that the
00:13:23.000 tribal data and into Inuits up in uh
00:13:26.880 particularly uh North America they tend
00:13:29.360 to eat blubber and a lot of that blubber
00:13:32.519 does have a lot of marine marine based
00:13:34.920 exposure and there's some seaweed
00:13:36.560 involved too so it's not just simply
00:13:39.240 eating nothing but steak or eggs or
00:13:42.000 dairy so of course they don't have steak
00:13:45.480 and dairy up there it's too hard to have
00:13:47.720 that so there's these extreme
00:13:49.519 circumstances and kind of an exercise
00:13:51.279 corer we would pull a study from JOSPT
00:13:54.000 on triathletes and then translate that
00:13:55.839 to my you know 101 year old grandma just
00:13:58.680 this populations are very different
00:14:01.160 maybe we draw draw some inferences or
00:14:02.759 some ideas and Concepts but it's pretty
00:14:05.360 far-fetched and uh unfortunately that
00:14:07.800 that doesn't hold water right all right
00:14:11.519 hey if you guys found our discussion
00:14:13.160 useful you want us to talk about
00:14:14.440 anything else any other questions
00:14:16.600 nutritional um we plan on doing physio
00:14:20.160 Round Table uh hopefully regularly um
00:14:23.160 and then yeah we'll have the manual
00:14:25.279 therapy expert nutritional the patient
00:14:28.240 education
00:14:29.920 bfr and barbell so that's our that's our
00:14:32.759 stick at The Eclectic approach make sure
00:14:34.839 to submit your questions online anywhere
00:14:37.440 on our socials via email or DM us on um
00:14:41.639 on various uh social
00:14:43.399 channels have a good one are you too
00:14:47.759 bye

-Dr. Wells


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